Key Takeaways:
- Diversifying your funding sources with Private Money.
- Why Glen started using Private Money.
- On finding his first Private Lender.
- Glen’s most effective method for raising Private Money.
- How raising Private Money affords investors confidence.
- The benefits of Private Money over Hard Money.
- On virtual real estate investing.
- How to build a virtual real estate investing team
Timestamps:
0:01 – Raising Private Money
0:18 – Today’s Guest: Glen Sutherland
2:49 – Using Private Money Is A Necessity
8:06 – Private Lenders On Your Warm Market
12:21 – Effective Method In Raising Private Money
16:06 – Private Money vs. Hard Money
19:42 – Jay’s Free Private Money Guide: https://www.JayConner.com/MoneyGuide
20:56 – Long Distance Real Estate Investing
21:42 – What Kind Of Markets You Are Investing In Now?
27:47– Team Members You Need In Long Distance RE Investing and How To Find Them
31:00 – Connect with Glen Sutherland: https://www.GlenSutherland.com
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Long Distance Real Estate Investing With Private Money | Raising Private Money
Jay Conner
00:00:00
My guest today Is a real estate investor all the way from Ontario, Canada, where he lives with his wife and his two fantastic, terrific children. Well, he started his investing journey, purchasing, buying, and holding rental real estate. They’re in his local area. And after a lot of research, my guests learned of a more favorable way of doing business as in how to, you know, do this business with lower property taxes, lower cost of, you know, entry south of the border, if you will. So anyway, these factors make for great ease of wealth creation. So these days, my guess is investing in the United States of America by purchasing and renovating projects. Now he also has his own show and podcast and YouTube channel, which is called Canadian Investing In the US where he provides all the information and advice for investors that are interested in investing both in Canada and US. Well, my guess is invested in both the USA and Canada and understands the advantages of investing across borders to achieve an even higher return on investment on, his investments. And with that, welcome to the show. My guest, Mr. Glen Sutherland. Hello there, Glen.
Glen Sutherland
00:01:21
Oh, thanks for having me, Jay.
Jay Conner
00:01:22
Absolutely. Glen, I’m excited to have you on and you and I were talking a little bit before the show. And so let me ask you a question. What was it about the business that got you into using private money?
Glen Sutherland
00:01:37
I think it was a necessity, right? What’s when you first start, if you’re anything like me anyway, you start by using your own money and you can, you can do a few projects and you realize that you run outta money pretty quick, and you really have to start raising money somewhere along this line. If you’re really gonna expand this unless it’s just a hobby. If you want to actually have a business and you’re actually doing a lot of renovations or a lot of projects, you’re, you’re gonna have to get money somewhere. And it’s whether you go down the private route, whether you go down the joint venture route, or whether you go to like a bank or something to try and get some renovation money, right? To do it that way. But either way, you’re gonna have to do it with someone else’s money. There’s, there’s no way, to expand this into a business otherwise, or honestly, even to live off of this, this kind of business.
Jay Conner
00:02:24
So when you and I talk private money, what are we talking about? Are we talking about any kind of institutional money, any kind of banks are we talking about doing business with individuals themselves? What’s that look like to you?
Glen Sutherland
00:02:36
So I actually, do a mix of everything, right? So it’s not that I do just private money, which will be raised by individuals, I do go down that path. I also take raise money by using doing joint ventures and making people equity partners instead of debt partners. And I also still go down the hard money path and do private loans or hard money loans from the bank. So, I do a little bit of all three methods, right? And I think diversifying, breaks up the way your payments happen. So you’re not actually having to come up necessarily with as much money every single month to even just float all these renovations if that makes any sense.
Jay Conner
00:03:18
Yeah. It does make sense. So what was your business and life like before you started raising private money? You said, you know, it was out of the, out of the situation of, of a necessity. I mean, what was going on, what happened to where, you know, you said, Hey, I, I, I need to go raise some private money. What was going on?
Glen Sutherland
00:03:39
Yeah. So well, off the start the way way, maybe I’ll just tell the kind of like a story. So I started off by using a home equity line of credit and I would use my own money to renovate a project, you know, refinance it once I got a tenant in it and pull all the money back. So like the bur strategy and I was doing that over and over again. And, and that worked until I, I just wasn’t able to do enough properties, right? So I started then switching to producing joint venture money and I would partner with people and I was talking to a very wise, man, I won’t do any name drops, but he told me basically what I was doing was stupid. I was given away way too many of the projects. So these renovation projects, cuz typically when I’m doing a fix and flip, I’m usually in and out within six months or I’m in and out by doing a refinance and keeping the property.
Glen Sutherland
00:04:25
Right. So either way, I wasn’t staying in these projects very long, and to take on debt partners, sorry, take on equity partners. I was giving away half of the project every time, right? I was doing all the money, doing all the work, and they were getting their money back in a very short period of time. And it, it, it had some benefits that I was, it was easy to raise that amount of money, but it was hard to give away all that money. If that makes any sense, to give, and keep giving 50% of a project away is the way I was doing it is tough. Right. And actually, I still do it, but, I found that by using private money and paying for that, I, could scale and do a lot more and I actually make more at the closing table. So whenever I was getting that, you know, 50, a hundred grand check when you closed it, instead of giving half of that away, I, I had been giving away, you know, 10 or 12% throughout the project, but there was still more meat on the bone for me at the end, rather than doing this.
Glen Sutherland
00:05:21
And in all honesty, I don’t know how, or what your listeners are usually used to hearing, but I, like a mix and that’s one of the reasons is to break up the payment schedules when I’m doing joint venture money. I’m not giving away or not making the payments every month because what happened when I was doing it all like 100% private money was the payments were killing me, cuz I usually would always raise 100% of the project. I wouldn’t raise the 110 or more percentage than what the actual project was. So when I was making the payments every month for the renovation, it was coming outta the cash flow from the projects that I’d already done. And really, I felt like I was spinning my wheels. One hand was paying the other hand, and my personal net worth was going up, but I was just paying one side to the other side, one side to the other side, and I wasn’t really getting anywhere.
Glen Sutherland
00:06:11
And that’s one of the reasons I switched. So now I like to do, depending on the situation I like to do probably about 70, 30 mix of doing private money and joint venture money. Right. Just to have different amounts and get different, be paying a different amount times. Right. Because like typically when I do a joint venture instead of private money, I pay at the end. Right. So it’s nice to do that. And I don’t know about you J Jay, but if it would be, it would be awesome. A lot of private money doesn’t like to get paid in the end. They like to have an ongoing, almost cash flow coming off from the payments. So that’s the one hard part I have, but I do, I do both ways.
Jay Conner
00:06:50
Tell me the story about how you found, where you found your very first private lender and how did that conversation go and how did the experience go to where they actually came on board with you?
Glen Sutherland
00:07:05
So my first one isn’t probably the best one to tell cuz the first private lender was on my very first project and my very first private lender was my grandmother. And my second private lender was my parents because I, I was just told, talked about the deal, how good a deal this was. And they’re like, here’s the money? And I was just like, well, that’s not what I was going for, but this is a lot easier than doing it myself. Right. But what happened, later on, is I, I was growing this one of the ways I did one of the first ones I accepted money on was I took multiple people’s money on which I know is kind of a, a frowned upon the thing and something I don’t do anymore. But in one of the first projects, I took on multiple private lenders so that they could put in a small amount of money.
Glen Sutherland
00:07:51
And they were found from back when I had employment. Right. And just talking about what you do all the time, people get interested in it and they’re interested in a higher return than whatever the bank is usually giving them for their, you know, their terrible savings account rates. So basically I took a bunch of people’s money and we did a project in Florida and when we were done, I paid them back. And what happens even when you’re borrowing a small amount of money, is a lot of people are a little skeptical off the start they were willing, to give it a shot and willing. They gave an amount that they were willing to lose, but when they were done and I made the payment schedule perfectly, I paid them every single month when they asked to be paid like per, per the contract, we did promissory notes.
Glen Sutherland
00:08:37
And when we were done with the project, we paid them back their money, or we sent the email that here, we like to pay your money. Can you send this? The wiring instructions for the whole amount? And they, all of a sudden were like, you know what, keep the money. And here’s more money. If you can do it with that amount of money, could you do it with a much larger amount of money? And I found that that was a nice way to do it. And one of the ways that I do this now if I’m trying to raise private money is to work on like a smaller project with newer investors, cuz it’s a lot easier for them to invest in something smaller. So what do I mean by that? A lot of times that means doing like a flip or a bur in like the Midwest or you know, the central United States, which has the purchase prices are a lot cheaper than working in anywhere on the edge.
Glen Sutherland
00:09:20
Right? So that I can show proof of concept, show that I make my payments every time on time and I don’t bother them. And at any time that there’s an issue with anything in the project unless it means that we’re gonna go late, but any other issue, I approach them and well, sorry, I don’t approach them. I just figured it out. I find the money, I make their payments and we always go fine. And that’s one of the reasons too, I use private money even when I don’t need private money. And the reason is when there are bumps in those projects, stuff goes outta scope thing. Projects don’t sell as fast as they should sell. I have the money to be able to make it perfect for the joint venture or sorry for the private lender. I, I want this project to be as seamless as possible. I want this to be the easiest thing they ever do so they’re willing to give me more money.
Jay Conner
01:10:16
Are you saying private lenders when you start doing business with ’em always have more than they tell you initially?
Glen Sutherland
01:10:24
That’s what I’ve found. They, they’ve never told me their whole bankroll ever. I always get started with a small amount. Like here’s 50, here’s a hundred grand. See what you can do. And then you do a proof of concept and then, then they’re more interested. Yeah. I, I don’t know what your, what your history’s been, but I’ve never been offered the whole
Jay Conner
01:10:42
Oh, it’s been exactly the same. They always have more than they tell you, right? Oh yeah. I mean, I started out with a new private lender of, oh, just a few months ago on the first deal. And what did they have? 30 or 40,000. And we cash that one out. And next thing I know they got 300,000, so, oh mercy. So what’s your favorite method? What’s your most effective method? Should I say for raising private money?
Glen Sutherland
01:11:17
I don’t know if this is the most effective method or not, but a lot of times I just, I, I don’t try to raise is this, this craziest thing is a lot of times I do a podcast YouTube channel. I’m just constantly giving content out and people tend to come to me and ask what I have actually for options. What, what, what is available? I tend to try to stay away from like investing with friends or family anymore. It was a good way to start building this thing. But in all honesty, it’s it, you know, you don’t want to have that extra cuz I have worked with people and even when it goes successful, it changes your conversations. When we hang out, you’re more talking about the business instead of just having a social drinker, whatever. Right. But a lot of times I don’t have like a formal way.
Glen Sutherland
01:12:09
I’m not usually going to raise the way I normally do. People will approach me, I’ll keep track of their information. And when I have a project, I’ll kind of make some notes about what, how our conversation had gone in the past and what they’re interested in doing and what kind of money if they even mentioned that, that they were interested in doing. And then when we have a project, then I would go back and circle to them. The thing about my projects is typically I’m working in like the cheaper states. So, my projects are short. So oftentimes I use the same lenders over and over and over and over again. Cause if I can keep returning their money every six months, as soon as they get it back, they’re just like, go do it again. Right. So I think it, a lot of it was harder off the start and where I was literally almost trying to hunt people down. But now that they come to me a little easier, it’s a, it’s a lot easier to, just to, to do your business and I’m not working about the raising of the money. I’m worried about finding enough projects that will give the returns that I can pay them and be comfortable with it.
Jay Conner
01:13:11
Yeah. I know what you mean. I mean, you know, it’s a good problem. I mean, which you know, which would you rather have more money than you can use or not enough money? Right. So I’ve got about a million and a half dollars right now. What I call sitting on the shelf from private lenders that I’ve paid off, that they’re waiting for me to, you know, put that money back, you know, back to work for them. But you know, when you got private money at your disposal, I mean, how, how much more confident, particularly with a newer real estate investor, how much more confident and bold, how many more offers are you gonna make when you know, you got cash burning a hole in your pocket, right?
Glen Sutherland
01:13:50
Yep. No. And you will. Yeah, exactly. It’s confidence. You will come off sounding more confident because you don’t need them and you won’t come off as sales because you don’t need them. Like, especially if, when I’m talking to people and, or I’m pitching a project, I know that if they don’t take it, there are other people going, I accidentally sent one of my deals to the wrong list and I had 27 people wanting to do the flip with me. And I went, I had to do, what do you call it? Like a kind of interview for two days to figure out who is the best one. I’m like, this is the worst. This took up so much time I’d had to answer the same question 30 times. And I was like, you know what? I’m never if I ever do this again, I’m gonna have like the FAQ sheet that’s gonna go out. And this is gonna summarize the whole thing, cuz I’m not gonna do this. Normally I don’t approach it that way. I usually go with one or two people, and show them the deal. And usually one of them scoops up or I go to one or two more people and, and go that way. I, so cuz I don’t wanna have all those conversations. I don’t,
Jay Conner
01:14:48
I know what you mean, man. So what are your reasons or what are the benefits of private money? And I know you say you use both, you use hard money and private money. First of all, I got a two-part question, Glen. Sure. So what’s the difference between hard money and private money and secondly, what are the benefits of private money over hard money?
Glen Sutherland
01:15:14
Okay. So there are a few things there, but yeah, Private Money. You’re not gonna probably don’t have the same setup fees to start with. Right? Sometimes I’ve paid 12 and two, right? So two points in order to do it. Sometimes it’s 10 and two. Sometimes it’s just zero setup fee and we’re just gonna do it. So it’s a lot more affordable when I’m doing a fix and flip loan, I’m gonna have to go get an appraisal done or often two appraisals, an ARV appraisal, a current appraisal. I’m gonna have to give basically everything that I’ve my whole track record, fill out a lot of paperwork for the lender. Basically tell them my whole life story, how many projects I’ve done per year, and hope that they will lend me the money. Right? Which usually they do, right? There have been very few cases just whether they, what loan to value they decide on.
Glen Sutherland
01:16:05
So that was the one, those are some of the big things, but private money is a fire superior product cuz you have a lot fewer hoops to jump through. It’s a lot more flexible when I do some of the things for payments. That’s a little different when I do, for instance, a hard money loan, I’m gonna be paying for interest based on the money I’ve used. Whereas when I do a private money loan, I typically take the entire purchase and renovation budget right at the start. So I’m paying interest on the whole amount instead. So it’s kind of the difference between a loan and a line of credit is the way I’m paying for the renovation. So there are some slight differences. But then, my main thing where I go is it’s the setup fees. I just got bid out for a 100% loan to value purchase and re, but there were $16,000 in set up fees and I’m not even lying.
Glen Sutherland
01:17:00
It was $16,000 in set-up fees, which really eats into your profit. You’re gonna have to make sure that those numbers work for you. So yeah, those are some of my big differences between the two. But one thing I wanna say is to not totally go, I’m never gonna do a hard money loan if I never did hard money loans when I started, I don’t think I would’ve learned how the bank runs these projects, right? So how do they do draws, how do they only pay for completed work? It was a good learning curve that I could copy to build my own systems to use in my own business. But it’s an expensive product to learn from, but it is, it was helpful. And that’s how I run everything now. Right. I have to do the inspections. I have to do it all because I don’t have a bank that is necessarily checking to see if I’ve actually, you know, that the renovation’s done. They’re knocking around. When you doing a construction draw, you’re not having someone actually show up to the property from the bank. So you’re gonna have to do that step and you just wanna copy the exact same thing.
Jay Conner
01:18:01
Yeah. And the phrase that you’re saying Glen there in Canada set up fees, I would suppose Canadian set fees are what we would call in the United States, origination fees or points, origination fees, Canadian terminology, set fees. So when you’re borrowing hard money, what are your average points or origination fee percentage of your loan amount?
Glen Sutherland
01:18:29
Well, it depends. And honestly, I don’t usually do a lot of hard money, but I was just going through the application last week. So I have some of them fresh, but we were paying two points, 9.75 for a rate. And also I’m a Canadian, right? So as an American, you probably could get some better things. But I was paying 9.75 rates for a 12-month term and you know, interest only 100% leverage of the repurchase and the renovation
Jay Conner
01:18:58
And in the world of, in the world of private money, what kind of set fee origination fees do you pay?
Glen Sutherland
01:19:05
Well, it, it, if it depends who I’m getting the money from, if I’m going borrowing the money from an experienced private money lender, who is like just still a person, but that’s what they do for a living. A lot of times they ask for 2% off the start. If I go and find the money myself from conversations and people I’ve met at meetups, I usually pay zero
Jay Conner
01:19:27
Zero. Exactly. Look for, it from a private lender. I’ve never paid points or origination fees in my life. Oh,
Glen Sutherland
01:19:36
I’ve, I’ve done it a couple of times.
Jay Conner
01:19:39
Oh, mercy. Well, I tell you what I was just thinking Glen, as we were talking about private money, I am so excited. I just finished writing a new private money guide that will get anyone a seasoned real estate investor or a brand newbie real estate investor or a wholesaler that wants to like stay in deals. So if you want a guide that will get you on the fast track to private money, you can just go on over to http://www.JayConner.com/MoneyGuide. It’s free. Download it. And it will get you on the fast track to making your own rules and, never missing out on a deal for not having the funding. So I know one of or your expertise in addition to private money, Glen is you are living in Canada, but you’re investing in the United States. So I’m very curious as to how you do this real estate investing thing. And it’s many, many my, the property is I would assume, is many, many miles away from, you know, where do you live? So how do you do this virtual real estate investing? What are the key points?
Glen Sutherland
02:20:57
Well, there are a few things depending on, the direction we’re going, but for simplicity, a lot of it is I’m gonna be buying instead of using like my own sub-trades. When I’m doing renovations, I tend to hire contractors that will be hiring their own sub-trades to complete projects. So it takes one thing off the plate and one less thing, to manage. And then a lot of times you, you need to still have someone check the work. And a lot of times that’s where I’ll bring in, you know, anybody really to check the work, cuz I’m gonna check the work of the people who check the work. And what I mean by that is if I say I hired a property manager just to go and go over and the contractor says that the drywall’s done and the roof’s done on a roof and I sound a little Canadian there, but what, what I’ll have them do is I’ll, I’ll go in and be like, you need to take pictures for me.
Glen Sutherland
02:21:53
And I need like, if they say the trim’s done, I want pictures of every single trim corner that doesn’t look right. And a description of what corner that is. Cause I need to get that fixed before I go. So, it’s just a little bit different where I’m not actually on site, but I can send somebody there and they don’t have to be someone who’s knowledgeable about construction. It’s just someone who, if I go and tell them exactly what I want, can go do that thing. So if there was a roof being done, I could go and say, can you go and see if there are two layers of shingles? I want angles from the side. I wanna see the Eves troughs or on straight, you can give them a list and they can get photographs for you. So that’s the one part about doing, managing the construction from a distance.
Glen Sutherland
02:22:34
And then the other part is just like there are taxes, there’s a corporate structure and everything’s a little, it’s very similar, but it’s a little bit different. Instead of using an LLC, I would use an LP limited partnership as being a can or a C Corp. Right? I wouldn’t, I wouldn’t do it as an LLC cuz a can revenue. Doesn’t like it. I file my taxes every year with the IRS first and then I file them with canter revenue after, based on the return I get from the IRS. So there’s a whole bunch of little intricacies, but it’s, it’s just, I guess being the distance thing after the, after you sort of file out all the weird distance things, it’s just, it’s the same thing over and over again. Right? It sounds really complicated. And with a lot of the stuff, I don’t need to see houses.
Glen Sutherland
02:23:25
I don’t need to walk houses. I need someone who I know and trust to walk these houses and to bid out these houses. Right? And so a lot of times it’s the same contractor in the same city that I do over and over and over again. It’s not me trying to reinvent the wheel too much. Mind you this year I did, did expand into two new markets. So I did have to reinvent the wheel, but normally it’s building a system, having someone else do a lot of the legwork, and finding the deals for me. And then I just do a quick analysis or a thumbs up or fountain thumbs down based on the analysis I’ve been given and then turn it over to the contractor, set the checks and balances in place to have all their work checked. And well actually before that, if say you got the project from a wholesaler, it would be having, pulling my own comps, having a realtor, verify my comps, pulling my own rent comps, having a property manager, verify the rent comps and then negotiating the property down or having somebody from my team negotiate the property down.
Glen Sutherland
02:24:31
So it’s a lot of it you can just sub out,
Jay Conner
02:24:34
Are you preferring to invest in metropolitan areas, larger cities, or smaller markets? What’s the average size market you’re investing in now?
Glen Sutherland
02:24:46
Yeah. So it’s, it’s usually there’s usually a metropolitan or, or a city around it. Right? That is good. But it doesn’t or like a larger city, but it doesn’t necessarily mean that I’m investing there. For instance, we did some properties in Palm bay, Florida, which is not far from Jacksonville. And then we work in Dayton, Toledo, Kansas City, Missouri, and Indianapolis, which Indianapolis is a big city on its own. But say even for like Dayton, for instance, which is not a really big city, we’ll work in the suburbs around the city. And a lot of it is just trying to find the numbers at work, right? I just need to be able to have the ARV, the purchase, and the rental all, lined up right. To, make this, this whole thing work. And I’m not biased about the size of the city unless I’m keeping it.
Glen Sutherland
02:25:38
And the reason is, is I’ve had some lenders that just say, Hey, I’m not interested in that because that city is that’s, there are only 5,000 people that live in that town. Right. So they won’t do it. Right. So it has to basically be a flip. And if I’m gonna do a flip in a small town, I better be ready for it to sit on the market a little bit longer. So my numbers need to have space for that. And where this happened, I was buying in Huntsville, Alabama, and just south of that is Lacey Springs. And when we were buying there, that’s exactly what happened. Lenders weren’t interested in the town being just too small. It was still in the zip code of Decatur, but it wasn’t big enough for lenders to even touch it. So you’re working in cash and then you’re, you’re basically your exits are you’re you have limited act exits on it. It’s going into this market, we’re going into or could be going into right now. I prefer to be in a big city where you have more exits.
Jay Conner
02:26:31
You mentioned a moment ago that recently in recent months you actually went into two new markets. When you’re going into a new market. Glen, how do you start finding and building your team? So this is a two-part question. Yeah. What team members do you need on your team to make this run virtually and how do you find them?
Glen Sutherland
02:26:54
Okay. So the big ones are gonna be the property managers, the contractors, funny enough, cuz one of our new markets in Michigan. Then, make sure that your lenders and insurance will actually lend to you there. So I found out that my insurance company from California will not lend in Michigan or not from not lend, will not ensure in Michigan. So I had to find a new insurance company, which I never even thought would be a thing. I figured that they’d lent for me all over the country. That would be a non-issue. But yeah, a lot of those things I’ll get that way. I’ll need to find those out. And usually a lot of times I like to go with referrals, but referrals are only so good because when you go and ask for a referral for a contractor, people don’t usually give you good contractor referrals.
Glen Sutherland
02:27:42
Cuz if a contractor is really good, typically they’re going to use ’em themselves. And contractors have a finite amount of people or renovations that they can work on at a time. So they may have five teams and can handle 15 renovations at a time. And if they’re really good and they’re an experienced investor, what I would do, even what I do with my other, my teams is if they’re really good and they can handle it, I’ll find 15 projects for them. And, and that’s how we’ll do it. So that’s the hard part is getting the contractors, but property managers, wholesalers, those people want to be found. So those ones are usually easy to, find you can, could bait a wholesaler. If you really wanted to, you could just put an ugly property up on Craigslist or something and you’ll have a bunch of them call you, but you can find a lot of these are just sitting in bigger pockets or Facebook forums.
Glen Sutherland
02:28:35
That’s going there, you know, do your due diligence and like always you don’t pay them any money. Everything goes through a title company, but that’s, how’s how I build actually really tell you how I built my team. That’s kind of how I do it I’ll get referrals for some of the base pieces and then referrals from those base pieces out to the other pieces. A lot of times when I start a new market, a property manager could do a light renovation for me. Property managers do handle turn tenant turnovers. So they can always handle paint, carpet, kitchens, and light stuff. They usually have referrals for mechanicals like HVAC, plumbers, and electricians, and it’s sometimes a way to get started before you move on to a proper contractor. So sometimes it’s a good way to just get your toe in the door. And then with everything, I usually like to get receipts from property managers and then contact all the receipts and actually get talking to them directly so that you can figure out if they’re affiliated to an actual contractor or something like that to a good co a good referral out
Jay Conner
02:29:42
Awesome Glen. Well, Glen, there may be someone or someone that actually wanna do business with you and, and invest with you in your business and or learn how you do this thing from Canada over to us. So I know you’ve got your own podcast. You got your own show. What’s the best way for people to connect with you?
Glen Sutherland
03:30:05
Yeah, so probably the best way is Glen sutherland.com. That’s probably the easiest one from there. You can find the YouTube channel, the podcasts, the coaching, it, it links, everything links out from there. So Glen sutherland.com or Canadian investing in us or Canadian investing in the USA. I own all the domains. They all lower the same spot.
Jay Conner
03:30:26
There you go. So Glen’s website is http://www.GlenSutherland.com Glen. Thank you so much for coming to the show. It’s been wonderful having you.
Glen Sutherland
03:30:51
Oh, thanks for having me, Jay. This was fun.
Jay Conner
03:31:04
Well, I think we just lost Glen there for a moment. So with that, maybe Glen’s coming back. I’m not sure. Yep. I think we just lost his connection. Well, there you have it, folks. And Glen is back now. Hey Glen.
Glen Sutherland
03:31:18
I’m in the show. Yeah,
Jay Conner
03:31:20
There you go. So, Glen, it’s been great having you. I just really appreciate your time, man.
Glen Sutherland
03:31:26
Oh, thanks for having me. As I said, it was, it was lots of fun.
Jay Conner
03:31:29
Awesome. Well, there you have it. My friend, another episode of raising private money. I’m Jay Conner, The Private Money authority wishing you all the best here’s to seeing you right here on the next Raising Private Money show.
Jay Conner
00:00:00
My guest today Is a real estate investor all the way from Ontario, Canada, where he lives with his wife and his two fantastic, terrific children. Well, he started his investing journey, purchasing, buying, and holding rental real estate. They’re in his local area. And after a lot of research, my guests learned of a more favorable way of doing business as in how to, you know, do this business with lower property taxes, lower cost of, you know, entry south of the border, if you will. So anyway, these factors make for great ease of wealth creation. So these days, my guess is investing in the United States of America by purchasing and renovating projects. Now he also has his own show and podcast and YouTube channel, which is called Canadian Investing In the US where he provides all the information and advice for investors that are interested in investing both in Canada and US. Well, my guess is invested in both the USA and Canada and understands the advantages of investing across borders to achieve an even higher return on investment on, his investments. And with that, welcome to the show. My guest, Mr. Glen Sutherland. Hello there, Glen.
Glen Sutherland
00:01:21
Oh, thanks for having me, Jay.
Jay Conner
00:01:22
Absolutely. Glen, I’m excited to have you on and you and I were talking a little bit before the show. And so let me ask you a question. What was it about the business that got you into using private money?
Glen Sutherland
00:01:37
I think it was a necessity, right? What’s when you first start, if you’re anything like me anyway, you start by using your own money and you can, you can do a few projects and you realize that you run outta money pretty quick, and you really have to start raising money somewhere along this line. If you’re really gonna expand this unless it’s just a hobby. If you want to actually have a business and you’re actually doing a lot of renovations or a lot of projects, you’re, you’re gonna have to get money somewhere. And it’s whether you go down the private route, whether you go down the joint venture route, or whether you go to like a bank or something to try and get some renovation money, right? To do it that way. But either way, you’re gonna have to do it with someone else’s money. There’s, there’s no way, to expand this into a business otherwise, or honestly, even to live off of this, this kind of business.
Jay Conner
00:02:24
So when you and I talk private money, what are we talking about? Are we talking about any kind of institutional money, any kind of banks are we talking about doing business with individuals themselves? What’s that look like to you?
Glen Sutherland
00:02:36
So I actually, do a mix of everything, right? So it’s not that I do just private money, which will be raised by individuals, I do go down that path. I also take raise money by using doing joint ventures and making people equity partners instead of debt partners. And I also still go down the hard money path and do private loans or hard money loans from the bank. So, I do a little bit of all three methods, right? And I think diversifying, breaks up the way your payments happen. So you’re not actually having to come up necessarily with as much money every single month to even just float all these renovations if that makes any sense.
Jay Conner
00:03:18
Yeah. It does make sense. So what was your business and life like before you started raising private money? You said, you know, it was out of the, out of the situation of, of a necessity. I mean, what was going on, what happened to where, you know, you said, Hey, I, I, I need to go raise some private money. What was going on?
Glen Sutherland
00:03:39
Yeah. So well, off the start the way way, maybe I’ll just tell the kind of like a story. So I started off by using a home equity line of credit and I would use my own money to renovate a project, you know, refinance it once I got a tenant in it and pull all the money back. So like the bur strategy and I was doing that over and over again. And, and that worked until I, I just wasn’t able to do enough properties, right? So I started then switching to producing joint venture money and I would partner with people and I was talking to a very wise, man, I won’t do any name drops, but he told me basically what I was doing was stupid. I was given away way too many of the projects. So these renovation projects, cuz typically when I’m doing a fix and flip, I’m usually in and out within six months or I’m in and out by doing a refinance and keeping the property.
Glen Sutherland
00:04:25
Right. So either way, I wasn’t staying in these projects very long, and to take on debt partners, sorry, take on equity partners. I was giving away half of the project every time, right? I was doing all the money, doing all the work, and they were getting their money back in a very short period of time. And it, it, it had some benefits that I was, it was easy to raise that amount of money, but it was hard to give away all that money. If that makes any sense, to give, and keep giving 50% of a project away is the way I was doing it is tough. Right. And actually, I still do it, but, I found that by using private money and paying for that, I, could scale and do a lot more and I actually make more at the closing table. So whenever I was getting that, you know, 50, a hundred grand check when you closed it, instead of giving half of that away, I, I had been giving away, you know, 10 or 12% throughout the project, but there was still more meat on the bone for me at the end, rather than doing this.
Glen Sutherland
00:05:21
And in all honesty, I don’t know how, or what your listeners are usually used to hearing, but I, like a mix and that’s one of the reasons is to break up the payment schedules when I’m doing joint venture money. I’m not giving away or not making the payments every month because what happened when I was doing it all like 100% private money was the payments were killing me, cuz I usually would always raise 100% of the project. I wouldn’t raise the 110 or more percentage than what the actual project was. So when I was making the payments every month for the renovation, it was coming outta the cash flow from the projects that I’d already done. And really, I felt like I was spinning my wheels. One hand was paying the other hand, and my personal net worth was going up, but I was just paying one side to the other side, one side to the other side, and I wasn’t really getting anywhere.
Glen Sutherland
00:06:11
And that’s one of the reasons I switched. So now I like to do, depending on the situation I like to do probably about 70, 30 mix of doing private money and joint venture money. Right. Just to have different amounts and get different, be paying a different amount times. Right. Because like typically when I do a joint venture instead of private money, I pay at the end. Right. So it’s nice to do that. And I don’t know about you J Jay, but if it would be, it would be awesome. A lot of private money doesn’t like to get paid in the end. They like to have an ongoing, almost cash flow coming off from the payments. So that’s the one hard part I have, but I do, I do both ways.
Jay Conner
00:06:50
Tell me the story about how you found, where you found your very first private lender and how did that conversation go and how did the experience go to where they actually came on board with you?
Glen Sutherland
00:07:05
So my first one isn’t probably the best one to tell cuz the first private lender was on my very first project and my very first private lender was my grandmother. And my second private lender was my parents because I, I was just told, talked about the deal, how good a deal this was. And they’re like, here’s the money? And I was just like, well, that’s not what I was going for, but this is a lot easier than doing it myself. Right. But what happened, later on, is I, I was growing this one of the ways I did one of the first ones I accepted money on was I took multiple people’s money on which I know is kind of a, a frowned upon the thing and something I don’t do anymore. But in one of the first projects, I took on multiple private lenders so that they could put in a small amount of money.
Glen Sutherland
00:07:51
And they were found from back when I had employment. Right. And just talking about what you do all the time, people get interested in it and they’re interested in a higher return than whatever the bank is usually giving them for their, you know, their terrible savings account rates. So basically I took a bunch of people’s money and we did a project in Florida and when we were done, I paid them back. And what happens even when you’re borrowing a small amount of money, is a lot of people are a little skeptical off the start they were willing, to give it a shot and willing. They gave an amount that they were willing to lose, but when they were done and I made the payment schedule perfectly, I paid them every single month when they asked to be paid like per, per the contract, we did promissory notes.
Glen Sutherland
00:08:37
And when we were done with the project, we paid them back their money, or we sent the email that here, we like to pay your money. Can you send this? The wiring instructions for the whole amount? And they, all of a sudden were like, you know what, keep the money. And here’s more money. If you can do it with that amount of money, could you do it with a much larger amount of money? And I found that that was a nice way to do it. And one of the ways that I do this now if I’m trying to raise private money is to work on like a smaller project with newer investors, cuz it’s a lot easier for them to invest in something smaller. So what do I mean by that? A lot of times that means doing like a flip or a bur in like the Midwest or you know, the central United States, which has the purchase prices are a lot cheaper than working in anywhere on the edge.
Glen Sutherland
00:09:20
Right? So that I can show proof of concept, show that I make my payments every time on time and I don’t bother them. And at any time that there’s an issue with anything in the project unless it means that we’re gonna go late, but any other issue, I approach them and well, sorry, I don’t approach them. I just figured it out. I find the money, I make their payments and we always go fine. And that’s one of the reasons too, I use private money even when I don’t need private money. And the reason is when there are bumps in those projects, stuff goes outta scope thing. Projects don’t sell as fast as they should sell. I have the money to be able to make it perfect for the joint venture or sorry for the private lender. I, I want this project to be as seamless as possible. I want this to be the easiest thing they ever do so they’re willing to give me more money.
Jay Conner
01:10:16
Are you saying private lenders when you start doing business with ’em always have more than they tell you initially?
Glen Sutherland
01:10:24
That’s what I’ve found. They, they’ve never told me their whole bankroll ever. I always get started with a small amount. Like here’s 50, here’s a hundred grand. See what you can do. And then you do a proof of concept and then, then they’re more interested. Yeah. I, I don’t know what your, what your history’s been, but I’ve never been offered the whole
Jay Conner
01:10:42
Oh, it’s been exactly the same. They always have more than they tell you, right? Oh yeah. I mean, I started out with a new private lender of, oh, just a few months ago on the first deal. And what did they have? 30 or 40,000. And we cash that one out. And next thing I know they got 300,000, so, oh mercy. So what’s your favorite method? What’s your most effective method? Should I say for raising private money?
Glen Sutherland
01:11:17
I don’t know if this is the most effective method or not, but a lot of times I just, I, I don’t try to raise is this, this craziest thing is a lot of times I do a podcast YouTube channel. I’m just constantly giving content out and people tend to come to me and ask what I have actually for options. What, what, what is available? I tend to try to stay away from like investing with friends or family anymore. It was a good way to start building this thing. But in all honesty, it’s it, you know, you don’t want to have that extra cuz I have worked with people and even when it goes successful, it changes your conversations. When we hang out, you’re more talking about the business instead of just having a social drinker, whatever. Right. But a lot of times I don’t have like a formal way.
Glen Sutherland
01:12:09
I’m not usually going to raise the way I normally do. People will approach me, I’ll keep track of their information. And when I have a project, I’ll kind of make some notes about what, how our conversation had gone in the past and what they’re interested in doing and what kind of money if they even mentioned that, that they were interested in doing. And then when we have a project, then I would go back and circle to them. The thing about my projects is typically I’m working in like the cheaper states. So, my projects are short. So oftentimes I use the same lenders over and over and over and over again. Cause if I can keep returning their money every six months, as soon as they get it back, they’re just like, go do it again. Right. So I think it, a lot of it was harder off the start and where I was literally almost trying to hunt people down. But now that they come to me a little easier, it’s a, it’s a lot easier to, just to, to do your business and I’m not working about the raising of the money. I’m worried about finding enough projects that will give the returns that I can pay them and be comfortable with it.
Jay Conner
01:13:11
Yeah. I know what you mean. I mean, you know, it’s a good problem. I mean, which you know, which would you rather have more money than you can use or not enough money? Right. So I’ve got about a million and a half dollars right now. What I call sitting on the shelf from private lenders that I’ve paid off, that they’re waiting for me to, you know, put that money back, you know, back to work for them. But you know, when you got private money at your disposal, I mean, how, how much more confident, particularly with a newer real estate investor, how much more confident and bold, how many more offers are you gonna make when you know, you got cash burning a hole in your pocket, right?
Glen Sutherland
01:13:50
Yep. No. And you will. Yeah, exactly. It’s confidence. You will come off sounding more confident because you don’t need them and you won’t come off as sales because you don’t need them. Like, especially if, when I’m talking to people and, or I’m pitching a project, I know that if they don’t take it, there are other people going, I accidentally sent one of my deals to the wrong list and I had 27 people wanting to do the flip with me. And I went, I had to do, what do you call it? Like a kind of interview for two days to figure out who is the best one. I’m like, this is the worst. This took up so much time I’d had to answer the same question 30 times. And I was like, you know what? I’m never if I ever do this again, I’m gonna have like the FAQ sheet that’s gonna go out. And this is gonna summarize the whole thing, cuz I’m not gonna do this. Normally I don’t approach it that way. I usually go with one or two people, and show them the deal. And usually one of them scoops up or I go to one or two more people and, and go that way. I, so cuz I don’t wanna have all those conversations. I don’t,
Jay Conner
01:14:48
I know what you mean, man. So what are your reasons or what are the benefits of private money? And I know you say you use both, you use hard money and private money. First of all, I got a two-part question, Glen. Sure. So what’s the difference between hard money and private money and secondly, what are the benefits of private money over hard money?
Glen Sutherland
01:15:14
Okay. So there are a few things there, but yeah, Private Money. You’re not gonna probably don’t have the same setup fees to start with. Right? Sometimes I’ve paid 12 and two, right? So two points in order to do it. Sometimes it’s 10 and two. Sometimes it’s just zero setup fee and we’re just gonna do it. So it’s a lot more affordable when I’m doing a fix and flip loan, I’m gonna have to go get an appraisal done or often two appraisals, an ARV appraisal, a current appraisal. I’m gonna have to give basically everything that I’ve my whole track record, fill out a lot of paperwork for the lender. Basically tell them my whole life story, how many projects I’ve done per year, and hope that they will lend me the money. Right? Which usually they do, right? There have been very few cases just whether they, what loan to value they decide on.
Glen Sutherland
01:16:05
So that was the one, those are some of the big things, but private money is a fire superior product cuz you have a lot fewer hoops to jump through. It’s a lot more flexible when I do some of the things for payments. That’s a little different when I do, for instance, a hard money loan, I’m gonna be paying for interest based on the money I’ve used. Whereas when I do a private money loan, I typically take the entire purchase and renovation budget right at the start. So I’m paying interest on the whole amount instead. So it’s kind of the difference between a loan and a line of credit is the way I’m paying for the renovation. So there are some slight differences. But then, my main thing where I go is it’s the setup fees. I just got bid out for a 100% loan to value purchase and re, but there were $16,000 in set up fees and I’m not even lying.
Glen Sutherland
01:17:00
It was $16,000 in set-up fees, which really eats into your profit. You’re gonna have to make sure that those numbers work for you. So yeah, those are some of my big differences between the two. But one thing I wanna say is to not totally go, I’m never gonna do a hard money loan if I never did hard money loans when I started, I don’t think I would’ve learned how the bank runs these projects, right? So how do they do draws, how do they only pay for completed work? It was a good learning curve that I could copy to build my own systems to use in my own business. But it’s an expensive product to learn from, but it is, it was helpful. And that’s how I run everything now. Right. I have to do the inspections. I have to do it all because I don’t have a bank that is necessarily checking to see if I’ve actually, you know, that the renovation’s done. They’re knocking around. When you doing a construction draw, you’re not having someone actually show up to the property from the bank. So you’re gonna have to do that step and you just wanna copy the exact same thing.
Jay Conner
01:18:01
Yeah. And the phrase that you’re saying Glen there in Canada set up fees, I would suppose Canadian set fees are what we would call in the United States, origination fees or points, origination fees, Canadian terminology, set fees. So when you’re borrowing hard money, what are your average points or origination fee percentage of your loan amount?
Glen Sutherland
01:18:29
Well, it depends. And honestly, I don’t usually do a lot of hard money, but I was just going through the application last week. So I have some of them fresh, but we were paying two points, 9.75 for a rate. And also I’m a Canadian, right? So as an American, you probably could get some better things. But I was paying 9.75 rates for a 12-month term and you know, interest only 100% leverage of the repurchase and the renovation
Jay Conner
01:18:58
And in the world of, in the world of private money, what kind of set fee origination fees do you pay?
Glen Sutherland
01:19:05
Well, it, it, if it depends who I’m getting the money from, if I’m going borrowing the money from an experienced private money lender, who is like just still a person, but that’s what they do for a living. A lot of times they ask for 2% off the start. If I go and find the money myself from conversations and people I’ve met at meetups, I usually pay zero
Jay Conner
01:19:27
Zero. Exactly. Look for, it from a private lender. I’ve never paid points or origination fees in my life. Oh,
Glen Sutherland
01:19:36
I’ve, I’ve done it a couple of times.
Jay Conner
01:19:39
Oh, mercy. Well, I tell you what I was just thinking Glen, as we were talking about private money, I am so excited. I just finished writing a new private money guide that will get anyone a seasoned real estate investor or a brand newbie real estate investor or a wholesaler that wants to like stay in deals. So if you want a guide that will get you on the fast track to private money, you can just go on over to http://www.JayConner.com/MoneyGuide. It’s free. Download it. And it will get you on the fast track to making your own rules and, never missing out on a deal for not having the funding. So I know one of or your expertise in addition to private money, Glen is you are living in Canada, but you’re investing in the United States. So I’m very curious as to how you do this real estate investing thing. And it’s many, many my, the property is I would assume, is many, many miles away from, you know, where do you live? So how do you do this virtual real estate investing? What are the key points?
Glen Sutherland
02:20:57
Well, there are a few things depending on, the direction we’re going, but for simplicity, a lot of it is I’m gonna be buying instead of using like my own sub-trades. When I’m doing renovations, I tend to hire contractors that will be hiring their own sub-trades to complete projects. So it takes one thing off the plate and one less thing, to manage. And then a lot of times you, you need to still have someone check the work. And a lot of times that’s where I’ll bring in, you know, anybody really to check the work, cuz I’m gonna check the work of the people who check the work. And what I mean by that is if I say I hired a property manager just to go and go over and the contractor says that the drywall’s done and the roof’s done on a roof and I sound a little Canadian there, but what, what I’ll have them do is I’ll, I’ll go in and be like, you need to take pictures for me.
Glen Sutherland
02:21:53
And I need like, if they say the trim’s done, I want pictures of every single trim corner that doesn’t look right. And a description of what corner that is. Cause I need to get that fixed before I go. So, it’s just a little bit different where I’m not actually on site, but I can send somebody there and they don’t have to be someone who’s knowledgeable about construction. It’s just someone who, if I go and tell them exactly what I want, can go do that thing. So if there was a roof being done, I could go and say, can you go and see if there are two layers of shingles? I want angles from the side. I wanna see the Eves troughs or on straight, you can give them a list and they can get photographs for you. So that’s the one part about doing, managing the construction from a distance.
Glen Sutherland
02:22:34
And then the other part is just like there are taxes, there’s a corporate structure and everything’s a little, it’s very similar, but it’s a little bit different. Instead of using an LLC, I would use an LP limited partnership as being a can or a C Corp. Right? I wouldn’t, I wouldn’t do it as an LLC cuz a can revenue. Doesn’t like it. I file my taxes every year with the IRS first and then I file them with canter revenue after, based on the return I get from the IRS. So there’s a whole bunch of little intricacies, but it’s, it’s just, I guess being the distance thing after the, after you sort of file out all the weird distance things, it’s just, it’s the same thing over and over again. Right? It sounds really complicated. And with a lot of the stuff, I don’t need to see houses.
Glen Sutherland
02:23:25
I don’t need to walk houses. I need someone who I know and trust to walk these houses and to bid out these houses. Right? And so a lot of times it’s the same contractor in the same city that I do over and over and over again. It’s not me trying to reinvent the wheel too much. Mind you this year I did, did expand into two new markets. So I did have to reinvent the wheel, but normally it’s building a system, having someone else do a lot of the legwork, and finding the deals for me. And then I just do a quick analysis or a thumbs up or fountain thumbs down based on the analysis I’ve been given and then turn it over to the contractor, set the checks and balances in place to have all their work checked. And well actually before that, if say you got the project from a wholesaler, it would be having, pulling my own comps, having a realtor, verify my comps, pulling my own rent comps, having a property manager, verify the rent comps and then negotiating the property down or having somebody from my team negotiate the property down.
Glen Sutherland
02:24:31
So it’s a lot of it you can just sub out,
Jay Conner
02:24:34
Are you preferring to invest in metropolitan areas, larger cities, or smaller markets? What’s the average size market you’re investing in now?
Glen Sutherland
02:24:46
Yeah. So it’s, it’s usually there’s usually a metropolitan or, or a city around it. Right? That is good. But it doesn’t or like a larger city, but it doesn’t necessarily mean that I’m investing there. For instance, we did some properties in Palm bay, Florida, which is not far from Jacksonville. And then we work in Dayton, Toledo, Kansas City, Missouri, and Indianapolis, which Indianapolis is a big city on its own. But say even for like Dayton, for instance, which is not a really big city, we’ll work in the suburbs around the city. And a lot of it is just trying to find the numbers at work, right? I just need to be able to have the ARV, the purchase, and the rental all, lined up right. To, make this, this whole thing work. And I’m not biased about the size of the city unless I’m keeping it.
Glen Sutherland
02:25:38
And the reason is, is I’ve had some lenders that just say, Hey, I’m not interested in that because that city is that’s, there are only 5,000 people that live in that town. Right. So they won’t do it. Right. So it has to basically be a flip. And if I’m gonna do a flip in a small town, I better be ready for it to sit on the market a little bit longer. So my numbers need to have space for that. And where this happened, I was buying in Huntsville, Alabama, and just south of that is Lacey Springs. And when we were buying there, that’s exactly what happened. Lenders weren’t interested in the town being just too small. It was still in the zip code of Decatur, but it wasn’t big enough for lenders to even touch it. So you’re working in cash and then you’re, you’re basically your exits are you’re you have limited act exits on it. It’s going into this market, we’re going into or could be going into right now. I prefer to be in a big city where you have more exits.
Jay Conner
02:26:31
You mentioned a moment ago that recently in recent months you actually went into two new markets. When you’re going into a new market. Glen, how do you start finding and building your team? So this is a two-part question. Yeah. What team members do you need on your team to make this run virtually and how do you find them?
Glen Sutherland
02:26:54
Okay. So the big ones are gonna be the property managers, the contractors, funny enough, cuz one of our new markets in Michigan. Then, make sure that your lenders and insurance will actually lend to you there. So I found out that my insurance company from California will not lend in Michigan or not from not lend, will not ensure in Michigan. So I had to find a new insurance company, which I never even thought would be a thing. I figured that they’d lent for me all over the country. That would be a non-issue. But yeah, a lot of those things I’ll get that way. I’ll need to find those out. And usually a lot of times I like to go with referrals, but referrals are only so good because when you go and ask for a referral for a contractor, people don’t usually give you good contractor referrals.
Glen Sutherland
02:27:42
Cuz if a contractor is really good, typically they’re going to use ’em themselves. And contractors have a finite amount of people or renovations that they can work on at a time. So they may have five teams and can handle 15 renovations at a time. And if they’re really good and they’re an experienced investor, what I would do, even what I do with my other, my teams is if they’re really good and they can handle it, I’ll find 15 projects for them. And, and that’s how we’ll do it. So that’s the hard part is getting the contractors, but property managers, wholesalers, those people want to be found. So those ones are usually easy to, find you can, could bait a wholesaler. If you really wanted to, you could just put an ugly property up on Craigslist or something and you’ll have a bunch of them call you, but you can find a lot of these are just sitting in bigger pockets or Facebook forums.
Glen Sutherland
02:28:35
That’s going there, you know, do your due diligence and like always you don’t pay them any money. Everything goes through a title company, but that’s, how’s how I build actually really tell you how I built my team. That’s kind of how I do it I’ll get referrals for some of the base pieces and then referrals from those base pieces out to the other pieces. A lot of times when I start a new market, a property manager could do a light renovation for me. Property managers do handle turn tenant turnovers. So they can always handle paint, carpet, kitchens, and light stuff. They usually have referrals for mechanicals like HVAC, plumbers, and electricians, and it’s sometimes a way to get started before you move on to a proper contractor. So sometimes it’s a good way to just get your toe in the door. And then with everything, I usually like to get receipts from property managers and then contact all the receipts and actually get talking to them directly so that you can figure out if they’re affiliated to an actual contractor or something like that to a good co a good referral out
Jay Conner
02:29:42
Awesome Glen. Well, Glen, there may be someone or someone that actually wanna do business with you and, and invest with you in your business and or learn how you do this thing from Canada over to us. So I know you’ve got your own podcast. You got your own show. What’s the best way for people to connect with you?
Glen Sutherland
03:30:05
Yeah, so probably the best way is Glen sutherland.com. That’s probably the easiest one from there. You can find the YouTube channel, the podcasts, the coaching, it, it links, everything links out from there. So Glen sutherland.com or Canadian investing in us or Canadian investing in the USA. I own all the domains. They all lower the same spot.
Jay Conner
03:30:26
There you go. So Glen’s website is http://www.GlenSutherland.com Glen. Thank you so much for coming to the show. It’s been wonderful having you.
Glen Sutherland
03:30:51
Oh, thanks for having me, Jay. This was fun.
Jay Conner
03:31:04
Well, I think we just lost Glen there for a moment. So with that, maybe Glen’s coming back. I’m not sure. Yep. I think we just lost his connection. Well, there you have it, folks. And Glen is back now. Hey Glen.
Glen Sutherland
03:31:18
I’m in the show. Yeah,
Jay Conner
03:31:20
There you go. So, Glen, it’s been great having you. I just really appreciate your time, man.
Glen Sutherland
03:31:26
Oh, thanks for having me. As I said, it was, it was lots of fun.
Jay Conner
03:31:29
Awesome. Well, there you have it. My friend, another episode of raising private money. I’m Jay Conner, The Private Money authority wishing you all the best here’s to seeing you right here on the next Raising Private Money show.
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