Max Keller is a Best Selling Author, Investor, Entrepreneur, and National Speaker
Max joins Jay Conner to teach everyone how to create success.
Max went from being a full-time high school Math Teacher to creating multiple successful real estates and marketing businesses. He has published multiple books and currently licensees his lead generation systems to real estate professionals all over the country.
Although business is Max’s new full-time obsession, one thing has never left… the heart of a teacher. Max loves the opportunity to teach, inspire, and share real-world applications that can transform the lives of business owners.
Max earned his B.B.A. in Finance from The University of Texas at Austin and his M.A. in Teaching from Louisiana College. He has over 15 years of experience in real estate, finance, and teaching, and he was named the 2019 Industry Innovator of the Year. A few of his current roles are consultant, teacher, author, speaker, and expert panelist. He has flipped over 100 houses and is on a mission to help real estate agents and real estate investors have customers chasing them.
Max created Savior Publishing House as a way to serve his community and help seniors with their real estate challenges. The Savior brand of companies focuses on providing Christian real estate and business solutions to our clients. Max enjoys spending time with his wife and children and engaging in family activities, such as being involved at church and going on vacation. He is passionate about investing time in his family.
Timestamps:
0:01 – Get Ready To Be Plugged Into The Money
1:42 – Jay’s New Book: “Where To Get The Money Now”- https://www.JayConner.com/Book
2:59 – Today’s guest: Max Keller
5:26 – How Max Keller got into the real estate business
7:19 – Max Keller’s first real estate deal.
8:23 – Max Keller’s struggles during his start-up in the real estate business
13:29 – Max Keller’s marketing strategy in finding deals in the senior market
17:41 – They see me differently because I have a book – Max Keller
20:38 – Let Max Keller help you create your own book for your real estate business.
27:34 – ‘Real Estate Investors’ Book Writing Checklist” – https://www.DealsChasingYou.com/Conner
28:57 – Max Keller’s parting advice: Lead with value.
Private Money Academy Conference:
https://jaysliveevent.com/live/?oprid=&ref=42135
Have you read Jay’s new book: Where to Get The Money Now? It is available FREE (all you pay is the shipping and handling) at https://www.JayConner.com/Book
Free Webinar: http://bit.ly/jaymoneypodcast
Jay Conner is a proven real estate investment leader. Without using his own money or credit, Jay maximizes creative methods to buy and sell properties with profits averaging $64,000 per deal.
What is Real Estate Investing? Live Private Money Academy Conference
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Real Estate Investing With Jay Conner
Jay Conner
00:02:40
My special guest knows how to teach and create success. In addition to that, my guest and friend went from being a full-time high school math teacher to creating in such a short period of time, a moldable successful real estate and marketing businesses. In fact, he’s published multiple books and currently licenses his special proprietary lead generation systems to real estate professionals all over the country. Also, I want you to know that all of those businesses are my friend’s new full-time obsession. But one thing has not changed, and that is his heart of being a teacher.
He’s got a servant’s heart. He’s always looking to give value and he loves teaching. He loves the opportunity to teach, inspire, and share real world applications that can transform your business. In addition to that, my special guest and friend has been investing in real estate. He’s got 15 years of experience in real estate, finance, and teaching. And as a matter of fact, he was named the 2019 Industry Innovator of the Year. Also, he has already flipped over 100 houses. In addition to that, he’s created a company called Savior Publishing House as a way to serve his community and to help senior citizens with their real estate challenges, enjoy spending time with his wife and children engaged in family activities. And something very, very important to him is being very involved in his local church, just like me and Carol Joy. With that, welcome to the show my good friend, Max Keller.
Max Keller
00:04:57
Hey, good to be here. Let’s go.
Jay Conner
00:05:00
It is awesome to have you on here, Max. Good to see you again. You and I are in a fellow mastermind. You and I have probably known each other now for about 3 years or so. And I tell you, it’s just amazing to watch all the phenomenal successes and the growth of your company that you’ve got going on. We’re going to be talking about private money with you here on the show today. But before we jump in, tell us, Max, how did you get into real estate?
Max Keller
00:05:28
It was sort of by accident. So, I was teaching Math at an inner city school. I was coaching football, basketball, and track, and I didn’t want to actually get into real estate full time. I just saw it as a passive income opportunity. My pay was pretty much fixed to being a teacher. And so I was like, I got to do something as my kids were getting older. So what I did was I just wanted to maybe get one or two rentals a year. I figured if I did that over a period of time, I could have a pretty good nest egg and then pass it on. What ended up happening in 2015 was I just kind of got sucked into real estate. I mean, it’s not just a good way to make money over long periods of time, but you can really increase the active income.
So I basically just got a local mentor. I worked all day as a teacher and then at night I would work for him. And within about 3 months I got a couple of houses under contract wholesale. One made about $16,000, which is like 4 months worth of teacher pay. I Then did it again. And then another time. And I just decided I needed to go full-time. And so that’s what I did. I just went full-time, I made the leap, it was a lot easier to source deals back then in 2015, 2016 than it is right now, but there’s still ways to do it. You just have to know what you’re doing, execute, and level up your marketing. And so that’s sort of been the journey that I’m on. I’m in Dallas Fort Worth and it’s very competitive like a lot of markets. And so what happened with me, I just had to figure out a better way to do my marketing because if you don’t have leads in your business, whether they’re for private money or for deals, you don’t have a business. So that’s kind of what happened to me. It’s been an amazing journey and it just keeps evolving every day.
Jay Conner
00:07:19
So was your first deal, a wholesale deal, a fix and flip, what was it?
Max Keller
00:07:23
So I have pretty good credit because I didn’t use it. That’s what’s kind of funny about credit. If you use it a lot, you don’t get very much more and your credit score is low. I had gone through when I was a teacher, like the Dave Ramsey Financial Peace University model, so I had all my debts paid off. I didn’t understand how to leverage debt in a good way yet. So, I actually took down my first property with a line of credit, I guess I kind of really wholetailed it, I technically took title to it and then just sold it, like I did a closing 4 weeks later to a cash buyer. But yeah, it was $16,000. I mean, I didn’t squeeze every ounce of juice out of the deal like I could have, but what I did have back then, which was really important, is having some really consistent, solid buyers. And that allowed me to create some opportunities for bigger chunks of cash today. And then it allowed me to leverage into long-term assets.
Jay Conner
00:08:23
What were some of your early struggles when you were starting out?
Max Keller
00:08:26
I think probably the first one was what to focus on and like who to market to. So it’s funny. I do a lot of marketing now and I’ve gotten a lot better at it. But at first, the challenge was that marketing because there’s so many other people sending out the exact same thing to everybody. And so as the competition kept going up in our market, the return on my ad spend kept getting lower and lower. And so I had to figure out basically what I figured out in my market was the problem that we were having was every other investor and wholesaler were sending the same messages to the same people. Like if they’re on my list, they’re probably on other people’s lists, too. And we have hedge funds entering our market pretty early on and they were paying really, really high prices.
So I knew that if I was just going to only compete on price and compete against people who have multimillion dollar marketing budgets, that was going to be a tough order. So the good news is I just thought about what the problem was and said maybe I don’t need to take down every deal in Dallas Fort Worth. What’s the best niche I can focus on? And so what I did and what I would encourage people to consider, even if they’re brand new is like, I just kind of outlined what’s a perfect deal for me. And for me, a perfect deal is one where I make good profit on the deal because of a larger profit deal and a smaller one. They take about the same amount of time. Number two is I want to work with people that aren’t resisting me. Like, I would go over to people’s houses and they would argue with me when I showed them the comps and they hadn’t moved in 20 years.
They don’t have a real estate background. And I was like, this is kind of a joke. And so that was number two. I want to work with people who are like, “You’re the expert who helped me,” and I want to work with people that I just enjoyed working with, who were just nice people that just didn’t have a clear path. And so those are the kind of people I wanted to work with. I made a list when I’d already done about 30 or 40 deals, most of the deals that I’d already done didn’t meet all of those criteria, but the ones that did, you didn’t have to be rocket scientists to figure out what the pattern was and that they were senior citizens, they were senior homeowners. So that was sort of my first marketing A-ha moment, was that there’s this really large, fastest-growing niche in our real estate space that I could target with different messages.
Senior homeowners have different needs than millennial homeowners. They just do. They’re interested in different stuff. They have different questions. So instead of sending everybody the same message, “I’ll buy your house, paid cash in 7 days,” like everybody else is sending, I started sending totally different messages that were very senior-centric. And as a benefit, I got a lot more calls. I had a much higher response rate and then kind of the next thing that happened after that real quick was about a senior’s house. It was the dad, and his adult children were there. So he was probably in his early ’80s and the kids were in their ’50s, early ’60s. People were upset because they’re selling the family home. There’s a lot of memories, Christmas was right over there, but they had to do it.
The dad couldn’t stay in the house any longer. And so the adult daughter said, “I really appreciate everything that you’ve done for us. You’ve helped us out.” I found the dad a new place to live, like a senior retirement home. And she said, “You know a lot about this. Have you ever thought about writing a book about this?” I was like, Jay, my lands, that was the furthest thing from my mind. I was like, “No, I’m a Math teacher. I’m not an English teacher.” But then when I thought about it, I was like, that’s actually a pretty good idea because at the time in the little 3 cities that I focused on in this huge Dallas Fort Worth metro area, I was getting known as the guy who knew a lot about seniors.
But if I wrote a book about seniors and their housing struggles, I could be the guy who wrote the book on it. So that’s what I did. I’ve got a special gift for your audience at the end, by the way. If you’re interested in writing your own book, we’ve created the first of its kind DIY guide. It’s basically the framework that we didn’t have when we wrote our first book, but we have now for all the books that we write. I didn’t realize that a book would be such an incredible magnetic marketing engine for my business. I was selfishly just kind of tired of having the 4-hour Q and A’s in everybody’s living rooms, answering the same questions over and over for 3 years. It was kind of burning me out. So I just wrote the answers to all those questions in the book. I wrote down all the stuff that people should ask, and I just got it printed. It took a couple of hundred hours to write my first one and then I just started giving it to people and it became my ultimate business card. And it really changed the way that I market for deals and then eventually private money forever.
Jay Conner
00:13:30
So, you started focusing, as you just said, on serving and talking with senior citizens that were at the point where they needed to sell their houses.
What are your favorite marketing methods for locating the owners of these houses that may be looking to sell?
Max Keller
00:13:56
Great question. So there’s really 2 categories of marketing methods that we use. They’re the ones that we used before we had a book. And then there’s the ones that are more available to people who are experts, authorities, local celebrities. You, obviously, are in that category. And so what we did initially when we got the book, was basically just the same methods that we were using. Data is more available now than it’s ever been. It’s easier than it’s ever been to find more ways than there’s ever been for people to reach you. What’s really missing in marketing is really understanding who you’re talking to as a marketer and then sending messages that are like reading their minds.
That’s the biggest problem, okay? It’s not the list. Everybody has the same list. Everybody knows how to stack a list. You can go on YouTube, figure it out in 5 minutes. The real challenge is why would they choose you over everybody else? That’s the missing piece. And so that’s what we did. I’ll give you an example, real simple, okay. We’re getting calls from our direct mail, our door-to-door flyers, our normal calling agents and talking about if there are pocket listings. Normal stuff. So people are calling our office, right? We had just gotten the book and sometimes they’re calling with a little bit of a chip on their shoulder because they know that they’re getting all this mail, you know? So they’re like, “Hey, congratulations, you’re going to win the house lottery. You have the opportunity to come over to my house and pay me more than you probably should.”
And so when people call, they’re like, “we need you to come over right now.” And I was afraid that if I didn’t go over there real quick, they would sell it to somebody else. That’s what they teach at all the bootcamps. And that’s probably true if you don’t have a book, but if you do, you don’t have to do that because instead I would just say, “Hey, oh great! Yeah, you want us to come over? Okay. we’ll get to that. Hey, real quick, do you have a copy of our latest book?” And they’re like, “Your book?” like the whole tone changes. I go, “Yeah! We wrote the book on senior housing. I’m the Home To Home guy, the step-by-step senior housing guide.” And I press further.
“So, let me ask you a question. If I send an autographed copy of the book to your house, you can read Chapter 3 – ‘All The Ways To Sell Your Home with Pros & Cons of Each’ before I come over. Because if you can, then I’ll come over and if you can’t, then I can’t come over. See, I’m the boss of my business. I’m the expert you’re calling and talking to the foundational source for the information that you need. So we’re going to follow my process.” It’s not being rude. It’s just a statement of fact. And so it really increases compliance, which is what you want as a business owner. Because you know the formula to help your clients better than they do. Otherwise, they’d be doing it themselves. Well, what do you think people are going to say when you ask them if they’re going to read an autographed book?
What do people say when they get your autographed book? They can’t wait. So what happens is, I pay a courier about 30 or 40 bucks. I send it over and I go, “Hey, do you still need me to come over right now? Or are you going in to foreclosure?” Then we got like a couple of days. It’s okay, a couple of days. So now I’m on my schedule, which is what I need to run a predictable business. I send the book, they read Chapter 3, but they read the rest of the chapters. Do you know what I mean? They read the story right here with me and my Momo. Do you think people think that guys who take care of their 90-year-old grandmas are scumbags or loan sharks? Heck, no. They’re like, “Man, this is, like, my new grandson, Max.”
So when I come over, they’ve read the whole book. They’ve already spent 4 or 5 hours with me and they see me differently because I have a book, you know? So it just sets the tone really well. It puts the odds in my favor. Then when I come over, I bring them the workbook and they’re just like, “Dang, it’s like Christmas around here.” And then I go through it with them. So instead of just talking about stuff or asking these lame and hard closing questions that nobody likes and it makes you look really slimy, we don’t have to do any of that stuff. Here’s the perfect example, Jay, on page 41. I tagged this page. I go, “Now, Mavis, if you’re looking at some other investors to buy your house, I totally understand that.”
I said to her, “I’d probably do the same thing, but make sure that you ask them these questions. These are the questions you’re going to want to ask to make sure you don’t get roped in with the wrong person. And by the way, you can ask me those questions, too: Do you see the credibility? Do you see the openness?” It’s like lights out. So that’s how we buy houses and it works really well. We attach it to what we’re already doing, but then the other stuff is the stuff that we didn’t even know about, which is speaking to local businesses. So one time I spoke at the probate attorney association, a monthly meeting for my county. Jay, do you think that 30 probate attorneys sitting in a room while you’re standing, that makes you the expert at what you’re delivering? Do you think some of those 30 probate attorneys in the next 2 years are going to know somebody that needs to sell their house?
Jay Conner
00:19:12
Well, it’s the perfect market that is like the revolving door of prospects for your target market.
Max Keller
00:19:19
Yeah. And so I used to think the only way to market for deals was directly to the homeowner with really standard, generic messages that get thrown in the trash. So our messages used to be in the junk mail, but now our books are on the coffee table with all the other autographed books from the local real estate experts, which, as you know, it’s not a huge stack. So, it’s about pivoting when you’ve established yourself as an authority, as an expert, as a local celebrity in your field, whatever it is. It helps make the transition going from an annoying pest, as Dan Kennedy says, to a welcome guest. We were the pesky salespersons who were only pitching and not listening, but now we’re the educator or the non-fiduciary housing advisor. That’s just a big paradigm shift. And when you’re in front of 30 business owners, there’s an incredible amount of leverage because they know 30 prospects. So in 1 hour you can really speak to 900 people. It’s just super powerful. And I haven’t found any other method of marketing that can replicate those kinds of results.
Jay Conner
00:20:32
Well, you can’t beat the credibility of having a book. You can’t beat the credibility of knowing what you’re talking about and being an expert. So, Max, we got a lot of people here listening to the podcast and I’m sure they’re scratching their heads going, “Well, that’s a great idea, Max, but how in the world do I get me a book?”
Max Keller
00:20:52
How can I get a book? Yeah, great question. I would love to come on here and say, “Jay, I’m just such a hot shot ninja marketer that I planned all this out.” Nothing could be further from the truth. If my market wasn’t so competitive, I would have never spent 200 hours writing a book. I would have just kept scooping up deals like most people were doing in that time in these tertiary, secondary markets, but I didn’t have a choice and it worked out really good. Here’s what happened. I’m getting deals with my book. I’m in masterminds, and we’re actually in a lot of the same masterminds. So I’m in this mastermind and my friends in there, you know, investors copy what works, they’re not trying to reinvent the wheel. And they’re like, “Hey, I kinda like this.”
“I live in Florida. You’re not using your book in Florida. It turns out we got seniors there, too. You think I could use your book?” And I was like, “I don’t know.” Maybe I just didn’t understand. And then my friend in Chicago is like, “Hey, can I use your book? Hey, they got seniors in Chicago, too.” So what we did was we created a system. I brought in some of the who’s who in publishing and we created a licensing program. It turns out the secret behind this book is that 99% of it is about stuff that our ideal prospect cares about. 1% is about us. Most marketing messages are the opposite. All they do is talk about themselves and very little about the person. That’s why they don’t call you. It’s like, “I’m sending out all this stuff. Why are people not calling me?”
Because it doesn’t look like you even understand what they’re going through. So that was sort of the accidental secret sauce from this. So we created a system where we change about 5% of the book, because the ways to sell a house in North Carolina is pretty similar to Dallas and is pretty similar to California, especially with the types of assisted living facilities, all of that’s about the same. So now we just swap them out on the cover. We give them a custom cover and they just pay us a one-time licensing fee to set up their book. In less than 30 days, they have a book and a workbook that they can hand out to prospects. And so they only spend about an hour or two of their time filling out all the information we need to personalize it. We write in their story.
So it just lowers the barriers that make it easier. And the folks that are usually a fit for our program are folks that are active real estate investors. They understand the value of a deal. They have some credibility, but they just haven’t figured out a way to signal it to the people they’re trying to reach. The phone isn’t ringing like it used to. Those are the people that come to us. And we’ve had about 130 students that licensed one of our 4-books systems across the nation. They see that this works and they don’t want to reinvent the wheel. So yeah, that created another, whole new business that I never expected. That’s where I got the award from, with Robert Kiyosaki. Jay, a funny story and I didn’t tell everybody this right.
It’s kind of embarrassing, but in 2005 I actually tried to get into real estate. I was 25. I just got married. The problem was, I wasn’t reading and I definitely wasn’t writing books. I didn’t have a clue what I was doing. So I researched CRMs all day, which is worthless. And I created an LLC, which is meaningless. And I didn’t know anything about marketing or lead generation. I stood in line to get Robert’s book for 2 hours. And then I just ended up not doing anything. That’s what happens. I just didn’t understand what to do next. I didn’t have a mentor. I didn’t even know what that was. So it’s crazy to think and I never would have imagined in a million years, 15 years later, I’m getting this award, we’re sharing a stage together and we’re exchanging books. I never would have imagined it.
It was a really cool deal. So it can happen. Books are super powerful and we believe that we’ve made it easier than ever for folks to plug in. And like I said, it’s for folks who want to do senior housing. And then what happened was that, well, once you have a deal, what do you need after that? The money. So we created a licensing program. This is one of my student’s books, Leonard, I’m really proud of him. He’s in Seattle. And because it turns out, guess what? Senior homeowners have questions. And when you give them the book, they look at you really differently. It works the same way with private money lenders. Who knew? So this is Leonard’s book. And then we just swap out covers. Here’s Tim Davis’. So you see how they’re different? But the insides are the same. But here’s the thing, the person you’ve given it to doesn’t care.
They just want to solve their problem. They’re just trying to figure out how to not get into a deal with a lousy borrower. They’re just trying to figure out if this deal really has a discount or not, they just want to have their questions answered. So instead of going to a blog or getting a bunch of emails, which have a low perceived value, we give them something that has a higher perceived value and a higher level of expected authority and expertise. And we just educate and help people. We tell them this isn’t for everybody. Being a private money lender on real estate is not for everybody. This is who it’s for. This is who is not for. This is my book and if you want to go through it together, I’d love your feedback. You know, stuff like that. So it’s been really cool and he’s happy because he didn’t have to rewrite this himself.
And then what we’re good at is helping people apply it to their marketing because just getting a box of books where you wrote one chapter with everybody else, nobody cares about when you fell down a well and you overcome your struggles, they just care about themselves. “What’s in it for me?”, that’s what all the homeowners are thinking. That’s what all the private money lenders are thinking. They won’t tell you that, but that’s what they’re really thinking. So just give them that, but give it to them in a way that establishes your authority and your credibility and it’s scalable and that’s pretty much what we do. And then we created a book system for Gene Guarino. We just did his latest book, and his students licensed it. And then we haven’t even announced this publicly, but we just wrote a book for Eddie Speed and the Richard Thornton, and so there notes students are going to license that out. That’s brand new. We haven’t even announced it, but I guess I spoiled it a little bit. So it’s been really cool to help people because everybody there wants to lead with more value. They want to educate well, I mean, who would ever say no to that? So it’s been cool.
Jay Conner
00:27:14
What you’ve done there, Max, is you’ve created a way that no matter what niche someone has in real estate, they can further invest on how to raise their credibility and actually convert a higher percentage of prospects into actually doing business. Well, I know we’ve got people that want to connect with you. So what’s the best way for people to connect with you, Max?
Max Keller
00:27:37
Yeah, it’s real simple. We made a special link as long as it’s up, so don’t delay, but we’re going to leave it up at least for the first 25 people who download this. So we created a new book called, “The Real Estate Investors Bookwriting Checklist.” It’s basically all the steps that we went through when we wrote Gene’s book and Eddie’s book and Richard’s book. But we didn’t have that when we started and we haven’t seen it in any other books. So it’s a real simple guide that you can use, whether you’re thinking about writing a book or an e-book or you just want to have social media messages that convert better. It’s real simple. Just go to DealsChasingYou.com/Conner. You can download a copy of the book while the link is still up. And then you can go on the website and check out some of the training videos that we have. It talks about the different types of book systems and how it would benefit you because that’s what it’s all about. It’s about getting more deals. It’s about getting more dollars. And when those things get dialed in, the marketing becomes a lot easier. Life just gets better.
Jay Conner
00:28:50
Max, thank you so much for offering that amazing gift to our listeners here. Any final comments and advice?
Max Keller
00:29:01
Just lead with value. Look, I know you can go deep sea fishing and I know there’s some great fishing where you’re at. You can go deep sea fishing and spend 4 hours trying to wrestle a big fish on the boat. That works. People do it. It’s just really exhausting. That’s what it’s like to market in a crowded market, trying to compete against Wall Street with price. That’s what it’s like trying to market without a book. But what we do is totally different. We share what we’re doing. And then we attract the people that resonate with our message. And so they’re calling and qualifying themselves to work with us. And in one of the most competitive markets in the nation, in one of the most competitive times, people are regularly calling us asking if they qualify to work with us. That’s a big difference.
Jay Conner
00:29:49
That’s awesome. Thank you so much, Max. There, you have it, folks.
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